Karl Voit describes himself as “a life hacker trying to make deliberate decisions on every aspect of life.” Among these are the tools he uses to manage his personal information. In particular, Karl is an avid user of Org Mode in Emacs, which is the focus of this conversation.

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Jorge: Karl, welcome to the show.

Karl: Hello.

Jorge: I’m excited to talk with you about a subject that has been a long running interest of mine and a tool that I’ve used somewhat sporadically. But before we get into it, would you mind telling us a bit about yourself and your background?

About Karl

Karl: Oh, sure. My name is Karl Voit. I’m sitting in Graz, which is the second largest city in Austria in Europe. My background is, I studied telematics, which is not very well known here in Austria either because there was only one university where you can study it. And, it was a great topic because it dealt with software as well as hardware. So the whole spectrum. So it was not that easy to accomplish, but it was the greatest adventure for me at university. After that, I specialized on the software side, let’s say, and IT security. And most of my jobs I did, after the university had to deal with IT management, IT security, compliance, and so forth.

In my spare time, I’m doing personal information management probably since school. In school, I was probably the weird guy who did his Filofax pages by himself. So, I drew them by myself because I was not happy with the ones that came with the Filofax. And yeah, I was let’s say, organized all the time. I knew when, somebody would be called for. by the teacher because of, different frequencies and so forth.

The main thing probably that’s driving me is laziness. I think, many good tech savvy people are driven by laziness. We intend to invest many hours and much effort in order to fix things before they go wrong. And yeah, this is what I do in my spare time.

And I had the fortune of doing four years of my business life, working at the Graz University of Technology, where I was a researcher in personal information management. The specialized topic there was local file management. So I developed a new kind of way of working as a filing and retrieval of local files, which I later then developed further to my current system. I’m using myself, which is called Filetags. And you can read about this method on my blog, if you want.

Jorge: I just wanted to say, I was smiling when you were describing your self-rolled Filofax pages because I felt like I was in the presence of a kindred spirit because I did the same. I even had the little Franklin Covey stapler to open the punch holes in the exact size for the Franklin Covey planners.

Karl: Same with me, yes. This was a really expensive one for somebody in school.

Jorge: Yeah, and it was driven by, I think, a similar impulse to want to have greater control over the format in which I was taking notes. I’m very curious about your statement that this was driven by laziness because I remember having to do a lot of work to do that, to populate my Franklin planner with these self-made pages. Can you unpack that, the “laziness” comment?

The use of laziness

Karl: Yeah, probably the explanation is that people – probably you and me – when we’re working on preparing a perfect-looking layout for Filofax pages, for example, that doesn’t count as work in a classic sense, that’s more or less fun and optimizing your life and probably thinking of issues that might arise when it’s not good.

And therefore, we invest set up time or preparation time or optimization effort in order to control, what might be uncontrolled somehow. So laziness is the driver, yes. And overall probably the effort is actually higher than other people, but, it actually makes fun playing around with my personal information management system.

And especially in my case, I’m absolutely guilty of investing too much time playing around with my personal information management system. So it’s not any more about working in an optimized way. It’s a hobby if you say. Some people like to solve Sudokus, for example, or something, similar and I do blogging and, optimizing my personal setup in my spare time as a hobby because it’s fun to me. And I profit in my business life. For example, all the setups I use, or I create in my spare times, they are handy throughout the whole day, independent of the type of work I’m doing.

And it accumulates over time. So, if you spend, for example, tinkering around with your Emacs setup for a decade, or even longer, then it’s getting better and better all the time without any setback of also similar. If you, for example, compare it with closed source software, when, let’s say Microsoft decides to come up with a brand new version of Word, then you have to unlearn somehow things you already learned, relearn new things until you are able to do the same things that before with the new version. And that’s not so the case with the tools I tend to use, usually open source software tools, where you get better over time without having to unlearn something you have learned before. For example, the things I learned about LaTeX or about Linux in the nineties, I’d say 90 to 95 percent is exactly the same until now.

What is Emacs?

Jorge: Alright, let’s unpack that, because when we did the intro, I alluded to a tool that we were going to be talking about and you brought it up, which is Emacs, right? And you’ve covered other tools here, like LaTeX and Linux, more at the operating system level. But focusing on Emacs specifically, you’ve already mentioned the fact that it’s open source software. I’m assuming that some folks listening in might not be familiar with Emacs, what it is, what it’s for. Would you mind doing the kind of ten-thousand-foot intro?

Karl: Which is very hard to do, especially in the case of Emacs. but let’s try. Okay, from a probably hundred-thousand-foot height, I’d say, Emacs is an endless, large box of LEGO bricks where you can take out a handful of bricks, you might think that they’re handy for your personal situation and you combine them in a way you need them. And for everybody else, the same box of LEGO bricks accomplishes different things. They build different structures out from it.

So, basically Emacs is an Elisp interpreter, which is a platform that executes code, which is in a computer programming language which is called Elisp. It’s a very old language and many people think that it’s the most beautiful computer, programming language. I have to admit I’m not that good in programming, Lisp, myself. I have other programming languages, which I would prefer, but anyway, it’s very flexible and probably the most interesting thing about Emacs is that you can look up any functionality this thing delivers, learn how it’s working, and modify it if you want to your needs and your modification is working or is active instantly. So you don’t have to restart Emacs in order to make changes work. You just fiddle with the setup as it is. It comes with a full documentation of all functions.

And out of the box, Emacs is most often referred to as a text editor, but that’s probably not the whole story because Emacs is also being used for other things like gaming or I’ve seen people cutting videos with Emacs, but of course these are much more strange types of applications, but it subscribes to the fact that, that, Emacs is very flexible.

And for me, personally, it’s knowledge management. It replaced spreadsheets, it replaced word processing. So I’m generating documents, PDF files, presentations. I use it for to do and project management. And yes, those, structures are built from those LEGO bricks that helped me with my daily life and it doesn’t necessary need to be like that.

So, other people, for example, just use it for programming or other people just use it for simple to do lists. So it scales very well. And the good thing about Emacs is all these vast amount of function that comes along with these platform, they are not in your way when you don’t use them. So, it’s not that when you start Emacs, you’re confronted with a hundred thousand buttons and you only click on two of them and the others are distracting from you, from your work. That’s not the case with Emacs. That’s the good part. So you can, You can start very lean, you can use only the most basic functions and be happy with it and never extend your desire of extending your personal setup.

Or you can think of, okay, now I’ve got this thing here, which is helping me with my grocery list, or dealing with my to do items in business. And now probably it would be nice when I would be able to draw graphics with it, for example, network structures or something like that. And most likely there is already a good solution, which integrates to Emacs and most of the time, it’s Org Mode, which is an extension of Emacs itself.

So whatever you think you’re needing a solution for, there’s most likely a great solution out there or probably ten or twenty. And you are able to look at them, look at, for example, YouTube videos online, if they look like they would help you and so forth if they align with your personal requirements, which is very important. And then you can decide whether or not you try them on or try something else when it doesn’t work for you.

So that’s a little bit of an overview of Emacs. Do, it’s a very versatile thing, and you already said many people refer to an operating system itself. Um, yeah, you can think about that as well.

Jorge: When I was hearing you describe it, when you started saying it’s like a box of LEGO bricks that you can reconfigure to do anything, and then you rattled off all this list of things that you can do with it – you can manage spreadsheets and you can do programming and you can build presentations or make diagrams – it does start sounding like an operating system, right?

But – and I think that this is a key distinction, and it’s a distinction both that I’m getting from what you’ve said, but also from my own experience using Emacs – there’s an important difference here in that it’s almost like it’s an operating system that you can tailor and tinker with to make it your own. And to the point you made earlier, you’re not at the mercy of the software maker somehow, right?

Because Emacs is not for everyone; most people can make do with the notes app that comes with macOS or the to do app for keeping track of things, but then later down the line, if Apple decides to change how those things work, you have to somehow relearn them. Whereas with something like Emacs, which is, I think, 40 years old, right? it’s a very old software application.

Karl: Yeah. It’s from the seventies. I think it’s even older than I am.

Jorge: it’s been around for a while, and it’s grown over time: it’s not the same as it was in the seventies, but like you can live with the Emacs and make it your own over a long period of time. And it will follow you from operating system to operating system, right?

Karl: Yep. And it follows you with your changing set of requirements because the requirements I had ten years ago, let’s say, are different from the personal requirements I have for my tools right now. And whenever I thought that the solution I already was using was not optimal anymore for me, there’s a way that you can modify it, there’s a way that you can extend it. there’s a way that you can stop using some modules and start using other models instead and so forth. So there is actually almost zero vendor lock-in with tools like Emacs, because there is no instance that can take it away from you.

And I have to say that the files you generate with these tools, especially with Emacs Org Mode, are simple text files. So whatever happens, I’m sure that eighty years from now, anybody is able to open up my files I’m producing right now and read them and search them and probably reuse them. So there is no file format that is a proprietary one where the information is locked in and the software is open source. So therefore, whatever happens, you can still use your current version of Emacs for the next decades if you don’t want to upgrade, for some reason.

Org Mode

Jorge: So, you’ve already mentioned Org Mode a couple of times, and I think we should get into that, particularly because you mentioned that one of the things you use Emacs for is managing your personal information. How would you introduce Org Mode itself?

Karl: Technically, Org Mode is a set of functions written in Elisp, on top of Emacs. So it’s an Emacs is called a major mode. So Emacs is extended by major and minor modes. Minor modes, for example, are things like spell checking or something like that. You can have only one major mode at a time, but multiple minor modes.

Org Mode is technically a major mode. When I open up a text file with the file extension org, I’ve already started the Org Mode. And with this, I’m not only having a text editor functionality, like you usually have in Emacs, but you can, for example, collapse and expand headings, or you can switch the order of headings or items in a list and so forth.

And it has really great features such as aligning tables, ASCII tables for you. So if you probably have used some lightweight markup language before, for example, Markdown is probably the most famous one, Org Mode comes with the syntax itself. It’s very similar to markdown. And I tried to come up with a new term for the syntax only, so I tried to set the path for the name, “Orgdown” in order to express that Org Mode is not only the Elisp functions that are able to help with expanding, collapsing, and fuse and so forth, but also the file format itself is a great idea. Because in my opinion, it’s the most beautiful lightweight markup language and it’s much better designed than Markdown, for example. And, because of that, it has a broad variety of use outside of Emacs.

So, you probably came across Org Mode files without ever using Emacs. Because it’s used in some readme files on GitHub, or it’s used somewhere else as a documentation because, the syntax itself is very straightforward and easy to learn and therefore nobody stops you, for example, from using it in email. So if you want to format lists… lists is a bad example because everybody’s doing lists the same way, but headings or any links or something like that, Orgdown, or the syntax from Org Mode is a very good candidate in my opinion, because it’s very easy to type even without support by some advanced software like Emacs.

Jorge: One of the use cases for Org Mode — and I’m speaking now from personal use here — is outlining, where you can also write outlines in plain text and the advantage of using Org Mode within Emacs for this use case is that you can very easily reorder the outline, right? Like, you can move bullet points up and down, you can nest them or hoist them as needed without having to copy and paste a lot of stuff. You can just do it with very quick keyboard shortcuts.

Karl: Yeah, outlining is the most prominent feature of Org Mode. Let’s say most people start with that because it’s very easy to start with. For example, you’re thinking of a new project you’re going to start. And usually, this begins with the brainstorming phase. So in my case, for example, I tend to create a simple list of ideas of arbitrary order, just one idea after the other without filtering much. So, the typical brainstorm phase.

And, the next thing I do is put those things in order. So, I try to give them a structure. Probably I indent them into different levels in this simple list. And then there is, for example, a function in Org Mode, which converts a simple list into actual headings. So from this simple list, probably with three layers of indentation, you can generate a heading structure of the same structure with just a simple command. And then, headings is a less lightweight syntax element. So, for example, you can add metadata properties to headings. You can add text to headings, of course, which is not so easy with simple lists and so forth.

So this is usually the thing that people start with Org Mode because just brainstorming some ideas, get them in order, and work with them until they form to a project, like structure, is probably one of the most prominent use cases. Yes.

Working on long documents

Jorge: Yeah, I used it recently. I was editing a very, very long document and I started, like you were saying, by outlining the ideas, turning them into headlines. And the neat thing about Org Mode, and again, I think we need to keep emphasizing that you are working on these things as “plain text,” so you have the advantage of this very long-lived file format, you know, the plain text file format. But when working on something like a very long document, you can very easily focus on just parts of the document and then work on that part of the text without having to look at the whole rest of it. You can do things like fold headings, so that you’re only looking at the heading for some things, but then you can expand just the section you’re working on.

Karl: Yeah, absolutely. This is very important to me because when you’re working with Org Mode files, usually you have to ask yourself, not in the beginning, but later on when you’re working withmany things and you integrate them in your setup, then usually you ask yourself whether or not you’re working with probably a handful files, but they tend to be done very long. Or you tend to spread out the information into, let’s say hundreds or dozens of files, which are of course smaller than.

And my personal setup at the moment, and I think I stick with that for, no particular reason, is that I have few files, but they are very large, tens of thousands of lines per file. So it’s really large, probably hundreds of thousands of lines in a file. And this is very important, what you said. So when I’m concentrating on working on a particular project, this project is a heading probably in the fifth level of headings, somewhere deep down in the nested structure of my Orgdown file. And yes, one of the first things I do when I’m working in a project is I limit the visible viewpoint to just this subheadings, or this subheading and its, descendants. And therefore, I don’t see the rest of it and it’s very easy to navigate. It’s very easy to collapse and expand heading within this smaller context. And yes, this is one of the most important features also in my point of view.

The flexibility of Org Mode

Jorge: Can you talk a bit on how you are using all of these functionalities to manage your personal information? And yeah, I think you alluded to managing to do’s and stuff like that. Are you keeping track of all that stuff in Org Mode or is it just some of them?

Karl: Org mode probably has more or less almost everything from my digital life included. So it’s my knowledge base. I collect web bookmarks with it. I link emails to it. The neat thing about working with my Org Mode setup is I don’t have to look up in many different places to find an information, because usually when I do not know the exact location of a certain information, I do a full text search on my Org Mode files, and I’m right there at the spot, when I find the right search keywords.

And this is cool because I integrate my file management within Org Mode, so I have most of the files that I personally had generated or I download from where else do have some kind of link within my Org Mode file. When I stumble across a file in my file system and I don’t know where did I get it or what’s the purpose of this file or what’s the context, I usually just have to search for the file name within my Org Mode files. And I find at least one heading where this file is linked, and there I find more explanation about the context. So probably that’s something I got recommended from a friend and I downloaded it from a specific web page and so forth. Therefore, I get more context of any information just by looking and searching in my Org Mode files, because I tend to write down many, many different things.

For example, I have a file which is called hardware.org, and this has my inventory of devices and every device I own, or not every small device, but for example, in any case, my computers do have a hierarchy there. And if I, for example, have any issue with my computer and which I need to solve, I usually create a heading within the sub hierarchy of my computer I’m working on, with these exact error message. And then of course, all the URLs I came across during research, how to deal with that problem. And, of course, when I find a solution, the solution is also there. And when I download some files for it, some tutorials or some videos, they’re linked there. So everything I came across working on any project is mentioned or linked or shown in my Org Mode.

And I have to say that, yes, Org Mode is text-based, but one neat thing that Emacs is helping me with is when, for example, an image is included as a file link in my Org Mode, then there is a simple switch, which displays all linked images right in my Emacs. So this way I can not only work with text, but I can also work with images and I can include, for example, PDF pages and so forth. So it’s very capable, even though it’s just text files. When I show people my setup, when I’m working on a project, people don’t even realize that this is just a text-based tool I’m using. So it integrates all the things quite neatly and therefore my one and only go to when I want to find out about a computer issue already had, and it’s solution, orI’m following the guidelines of keeping a journal of all the IT stuff I’m doing, it’s very easy to integrate shell scripts and so forth and their output right in the, specific heading where I’m working with it.

Org on mobile

Jorge: One of the things that I’m getting from what you’re saying here is that one of the advantages of using Emacs and Org Mode specifically to manage your information is that if you go all in — and it sounds like you have pretty much gone all in — then you don’t have to waste time looking for stuff because you know it’s all going to be there. It’s centralized into this one tool. And now I’m going to ask you for advice, because it’s one of the things that I struggle with with Emacs, which is, what do you do with mobile? Because, I get the sense that the information that you manage in Org Mode and in Emacs is very kind of computer-centric — and by computer, I mean like laptop or desktop, you know, like traditional computer-centric. Are there good solutions for adding or reading org files on mobile devices?

Karl: Yeah, sure. As usual, you get multiple apps that are able to deal with Org Mode files on your mobile device. So in my case, it’s Android. And in my case particular, I’m using Orgzly, which is an Android app, and a very capable, but I’m not really using it to its max because, for particular reasons, I only use it on my mobile phone for reading only.

So I have, my most important Org Mode files are synced with Syncthing to my Android device. And with Orgzly, it’s a very neat interface to look for information. So it has a fast and capable search feature. I can navigate through my headings of course, and the one and only thing I use Orgzly in a writing mode is when I capture things.

So for example, I’m in my mobile browser or in my Mastodon client, and I came across an interesting link or webpage or information of some sort. I use the share intent, so share with my Org Mode inbox on my mobile phone and then I can forget about that on my mobile phone because I know for certain that this will pop up on my desktop computer in my inbox. And from there, I will refile it to the right heading or if it’s just a little thing to look up or something like that, I do it right away and then mark it as done and move it to the archive. On my mobile phone, I only use the capture feature of Orgzly, which then lands in my desktop Emacs setup. And from there, I’m processing all those tasks, either reading, accomplishing, or I don’t know what.

Jorge: Well, what I’m hearing there, I’m just going to reflect it back to you, is that your mobile devices can be a part of this experience. It sounds to me like you’re using them more as a satellite device and as a primary device, right? Like the main device is still a more traditional computer.

Karl: Yeah, but there are people that actually look at it completely from a different point of view.I think a couple of months ago, there was a new compilation of Emacs for Android. So you can get native Emacs on Android. So if you have a decent display and, in my opinion, if you have a decent keyboard — that’s the main reason I’m not using a full-blown Emacs on a mobile device, because I like to have my keyboard with me. And I am using a very special keyboard, which is an ergonomic one. I don’t have this with me when I’m away from my computer. So therefore, usually, my mobile phone is for reading, and for learning, and for capturing, and not so much, about generating information, processing information, and so forth. For that, I prefer my large computer.

Emacs’s user interface

Jorge: That’s a good clarification, that distinction. And I’m glad you brought in the keyboard aspect to this, because I think I’d be remiss in not mentioning that one of the things that people find challenging about learning Emacs in general, not just Org Mode, is the fact that it is a very keyboard-driven experience. As you were saying, it has its roots in the seventies before people even used mice with computers or pointers. And learning Emacs does require training your hands to develop the muscle memory necessary to chord certain commands, right?

Karl: Not necessarily. Actually, if you start Emacs out of the box, you do have buttons for copy-paste and so forth, save, file open. In my opinion, Emacs is very user friendly for beginners without having to learn keyboard shortcuts right from the start. But yes, when you find out how handy this tool is you tend to learn more and more key bindings — and that’s the phrase that Emacs is using for keyboard shortcuts — so keep key bindings are very handy for getting faster and more efficient. And you also have a nice menu bar. And when you expand a menu in this menu bar, you find those commands that are available to you together with their key bindings. So it’s very easy to learn them.

So if you choose to use the buttons, yeah, use them. If you choose to start with exploring the menus, yeah, use them. And if you find out that choosing three sub-menus in the menu bar is not very efficient, then probably you will remember the keyboard binding, which was written right beneath it and then you’re faster. It’s up to you. And in my opinion, After you have gone through the Emacs tutorial, which is very easy to go through because it’s presented right when you fire up Emacs the first time, the only. amount of keyboard shortcuts for, let’s say the first weeks or months for Org Mode, are only five different keyboard shortcuts, and most of them are very straightforward.

For example, the tab key is expanding and collapsing. That’s very straightforward. And I have a neat blog article on my webpage which helps with this notion so that people do not fall into the trap to being overwhelmed by this vast amount of functionality, which is, of course, a bad thing. Many people who are confronted with all these little — or not so little — whistles and features and whatnot, when they, for example, get a demo from people like me, they think that, “Oh, that’s way too complicated for me, and I don’t need that, and I don’t need that, and I will never remember all those keybinding,” and so forth.

There is no need; you can start very easily, it’s very straightforward. Therefore I started blogging about this because I think that many more people should be able to work with Emacs and Org Mode because it’s not that hard to do, not at all. And so it’s not only just those weird tech guys who should work with tools like Emacs. Of course, you should have a certain curiosity about new tools. Yes. And you should not have some kind of resentments against using the keyboards, yes. Because that quite easily starts getting more and more efficient quite fast when you’re using tools like Emacs.

But the same holds true when you’re working with tools like Microsoft Excel or something like that. If you’re working a couple of hours in your business day with certain tools, you tend to look for keyboard shortcuts that make your life much easier. Because a couple of years ago, There was a nice research article, I think it was by Microsoft, where they found out that I think 66 percent of the people, but that’s 20 years ago, something like that, 66 percent of the participants, didn’t know what Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V were doing. So if people didn’t see the button for, cut, copy, and paste, and if they didn’t see a menu item for edit, cut, copy and paste, they thought that there is no clipboard, for example.

I think, first of all, this should be better now. And, second, when people work with some kind of software — and this is not particularly has to do with Emacs at all — they should have an urge of using this tool in an optimized way so that they don’t waste their time navigating through tons of menu items.

Jorge: That seems like a really good takeaway for people listening in: even if you don’t decide to try Emacs — and you already mentioned that it’s open source, but we should mention that Emacs is free, right? Like, literally free software, so you can download it and try it without any cost other than the time that it takes you to learn it. But even if you decide not to do that, I think that what you just mentioned — this idea that any software that is meant to be used — let’s call it like in professional capacity is likely going to have things like keyboard shortcuts, that if you learn, will make you a much more proficient user.

And circling back to Emacs, I get the sense from talking with you and from having used Emacs for some time now that it is a software application that represents that to the utmost, just because things like the keyboard bindings you were talking about, you can customize infinitely, right? Like you can make it into your own to suit your own needs. And if you don’t like the default keyboard bindings out of the box, you can change them, right?

Karl: Exactly. Yeah. And there are other possibilities as well. For example, if you invest more and more time in Emacs, you probably even as a very deep down the tech guy like me, you come to a point where you can’t remember all those customized keyboard bindings you were defining yourself, and therefore there are other tools as well that helps you with those situations. For example, I’m using, an extension of Org Mode, which is called, or an extension of, yeah, an extension of Org Mode, which is called Hydra, which can be described as a thing where you can create your own cheat sheet — the concept of cheat sheet where you print out and a page of, paper, which lists all the major keyboard bindings and keyboard shortcuts of a certain tool.

So I do have these online or in my Emacs, I mapped it to F1 for historical reasons. So whenever I am in Org Mode and I can’t remember a function I was using, or a keyboard binding of a function I was using, but I remember that I somehow added it to my personal cheat sheet, I just press F1 and there pops up a window where I can read all those commands that I personally curated.

And most of the time there are connected with one additional character so that I can invoke them very easily and finding this type of working with customizations, I found that I didn’t care to act, or I didn’t care to define any more personal keyboard shortcuts, actually reduce them because everything which was accessible by this Hydra feature I was talking about, I didn’t want to use a keyboard binding anymore. So I’m just firing up my Hydra help window and then executing this command from there. So therefore I just have to remember the Hydra command, which is very easy — just press F1 — and then usually I know where to look for and press this tiny highlighted character right beneath the feature and it’s invoked instantly. So I actually reduced the set of customized keyboard shortcuts by using this kind of feature.


Jorge: Great. Well, I have other questions I would love to ask you about this stuff, but unfortunately we’re going to have to wind it down. Where can folks follow up with you to find out more about your work and how you’re using these tools?

Karl: Yeah, sure. You can follow me on Mastodon. you can easily find me on Mastodon with my name; I think my name is pretty unique. Anyway, you can also find a link to my Mastodon account on my homepage. My homepage is also very easy to find: It’s karl-voit.at. A T stands for Austria. And then you can find, for example, on my main page, the link to how to use this blog efficiently. And there you see how to follow me and how to use my blog. Actually, this blog is something I wrote myself. So the, blog content is generated out from my Org Mode by a software, which I wrote in Python myself. So everything you see here is also in Org Mode.

Jorge: Well, that’s very exciting. My blog is run using Jekyll, and I edit the files using Emacs. So, even though I’m not using Org Mode for that, I’m using Markdown, but it just speaks to the flexibility of this tool. Like you can make it your own, like you were saying.

Karl: Yeah, there are tons of static blog generators that use different syntax input, like for example, Org Mode and generate a webpage. I just wanted to get more customizations there. And when you start thinking about cool features with your block software, yeah, I ended up writing it on my own, which is not a good idea, but I’m very content with the result. And of course it’s open source as well, so if you want to play around with my blogging software, which is called Lazyblorg, it’s online and you can right away, start trying it out.

Jorge: Well, thank you for sharing that with us. And thank you for sharing your knowledge about Emacs and Org Mode. I’m going to include links to all of those resources in the show notes. Thank you, Karl, for being here with us today.

Karl: Thank you for having me.